Diversity of opinion, anyone?

The rub with Tarek Fatah is the rub that all "Muslim Leaders" get into: politics.

There should be one Ummah. That is what the Prophet said in his last speach and we should beware of splinter groups.

In the old world Muslim days, social and spiritual concerns were meshed and it made sense for a Caliph, mullah or Imam to comment and rule on secular concerns.

As western and muslim cultures collide, the mesh of spiritual, religious and spiritual becomes more complicated.

Most American muslims don't wish for a Islamic America or atleast they would not make such an awkward statement. Most people want or accept diversity.

But that does not mean I-S-L-A-M has to be diverse. Atleast not in my opinion. It means we have to find ways to embrace diversity outside Islam in our secular lives. The Western Muslim cannot be immersed in Islam 24x7 except that this Islam be a deep esoteric Islam. We are encouraged to live secular lives and contribute to society. The monastic tradition in Islam is rare. Islam is an Urban religion.

Can I say Diversity of Opinions? Yes.
Does that diversity have to splinter the Islamic community into separate factions? It should not.

Diversity of opinion within the tradition is expected and normal. Great diversity, greater diversity than you imagine. No one seems overly bothered about this until modernity, then Islam becomes some sort of nationalist enterprise with one identity forged against others with whom we might negotiate and tolerate or not.

Diversity of opinion is a mercy for the believers and the ground of our intellectual and spiritual heritage.

This does not mean there are no boundaries, it just means that those boundaries have always been in flux and under discussion--some more than others. This is simply a historical fact. Whether or not moderns like it is beyond me or my sympathies. We are many held together through the One.

Tarek. Regarding your statement:

The rub with Tarek Fatah is the rub that all "Muslim Leaders" get into: politics.

There should be one Ummah. That is what the Prophet said...

The Universality that the Prophet spoke of does not equate with Uniformity. To be quite honest, I am not familiar with this Mohammed D so I cannot speak on him. But I am more interested in the nature of your comments. I often hear from Muslims today who use the "One Ummah" line as a blunt weapon to spiritually terrorize their fellow Muslims to falling in line with what they happen to disagree about.

Also, regarding your statement:

As western and muslim cultures collide...

It's amazing! Your rhetoric is no different than the Orientalists you seem to take issue with. Western and Muslim culture. Define for me Muslim culture. I would venture that when it came down to defining it it would more than likely be sinonymous with some type of ethnic culture (Arab, Pakistani, African...). The implied meaning in this is that the West is inherently unIslamic (which if you read the history of Muslims this term Islamic was virtually unknown in premodern times!) and the East is. Personally, I find it quite racist and ignorant. I am man, born in North America, descendant of Africans, Asians as well as others. I chose Islam in the way that Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman and 'Ali chose to be Muslim. All of this tongue wagging of the West vs. Islam is misguided, misdirected and downright ignorant. The "Muslim World" has had to, on an on going, historical basis, evaluate and confront those issues within its own societies which did not coincide with their interpretations of their religious needs. And it is precisely their history and their time and space which informed them on coming to those decisions.

I highly encourage you and any one else who made read this post to educate yourselves on the tradition of pluralism in the history of Islam (pluralism by the way is not meant as a free-for-all attitude or a laissez-faire mind set about the religion). Their have been many communities throughout history since the time of the Prophet [SAWS] who have been able to validate multiple interpretations, even contradicting interpretations of what they considered to be Islam. And despite their differences, they went about their lives, agreeing to disagree, as One Ummah. If you thought that the Companions of the Prophet all had identical interpretations or understandings of Islam then you're soarly wrong.

I highly recommend two items that you could read that may shed some light on this issue:

1) Sherman Jackson's article, published in September 11, In History, A Watershed Moment? His article: Islam(s) East and West: Pluralism between No-Frills and Designer Fundamentalism. Amazon link | Duke University Press.

2) Sherman Jackson's book, On the Boundaries of Theological Tolerance in Islam: Abu Hamid al Ghazali's Faysal al Tafriqa. Amazon link.

May Allah guide us and make us closer

Well, since this site is about sharing, why don't you go ahead and clarify it then; what can it hurt?

>>You don't know what the hell I am talking about by "one ummah."

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

Individual and local community differences aside, which are a inevitable consequence of being a human being, there are certain requirements that are incumbent on all Muslims.

This should not be impractical nor an imposition. It is simply the nature of being "Muslim." One must recognise that to be "muslim" does mean something. It cannot mean anything. There are consequences of aligning one's actions and intentions along the manner of the Prophet Mohammad (s).

Some will insist that such a belief automatically indicates some autocratic regime of backwards clergy imposing repressive interpretations of shariah.

This is not necessarily so.

The following is a part of the Last Sermon of the Prophet
Mohammad. It serves as a reminder of all the obligations of his teachings according to the revelation of Allah.

"O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belogs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people."

Complete Sermon
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/lastsermon.html

My Arabic is not far enough along, but I believe the translation is always an issue.

Pronouns in semitic languages are dealt with differently from English (determined in the verb and often hard to translate).

But all this is acadmemic and you either believe Islam is by its revelation and very nature, misogynistic, or you believe that it is mistranslated and abused by some.

I assume that the Qur'an and the Prophet deal fairly with women and men and there is no injustice.

But those will the will to do so can always manufacture their own problems to have with Islam.

This has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the person and their own experiences and personality.

I am getting really alarmed at the anti-immigrant sentiment. this
is really something I find offensive. Tarek and I have had our
differences and if people object to his ideas then these should be debated.
, but this is in my view racist insofar as it focuses on a person's background
rather than his views, positions or character. I find this to be intolerable and
sadly not terribly surprising. Would it be acceptable to say I am weary of
African American Muslims, of Italian American Muslims of Gay Muslims?

Is this an acceptable?

Tarek comes across pompous and arrogant in my opinion.

Is this racist, no, his delivery and communication skills sadly seem consistent with other self-appointed "Muslim spokesmen" of the al-hamdu lillah variety as Muslim Hedonist pointed out.

Many Pakistanis in North America do not come from the urban slums of Karachi, Lahore, or Islamabad. They are from "noteable families" or is the word "honourable" claiming to be descendants of the Prophet himself or some scholar whose tomb is a pilgrimage site. What am I to do? Kowtow and kiss his feet, I'm sorry, I'm not a Desi!

Many Pakistanis dominate the mosque scene with their fancy degrees, overpaid professions, and their "expertise" on Islam and what is the "true" Islam.

There is no such thing as "true" Islam. Islam is personal and highly subjective, everyone has a different understanding of the Divine and there should be no human mediators between the creation and the Creator. However, cultural baggage from Pakistan is passed off as "true" Islam just like the Salafi missionaries who pass off Saudi culture and cultural misogyny as "true" Islam.

The Muslim Canadian Congress is seen as a joke period!

Offended by this blunt assessment, Ginan?

Most Muslims are not open to a "progressive" agenda, I have told Nakia this, we live in an "age of carnage where wholesale murder will be the only means to force Muslims to re-examine their faith." Intra-Muslim violence is alarmingly too common throughout the core Muslim lands of the Middle East and elsewhere as in the port city of Karachi, when will Muslims wake up and be concerned for their own salvation, and not the salvation of their brother and sister.

"I mentioned I have a cultural bias against Pakistanis, I'm Persian, there are biases all across the Muslim world from one neighbor to the next."

HAHAHHA!!!

I have heard that bias again and again. Persians (Iranians) really love to hate on the Pakis. And I have heard it just as you describe...."they freakin own Islam like they patented it."

Probably comes from being neighbors with some bad blood border disputes and whatnot.

Here something you are also probably familiar with: Persians have been known to be a little arrogant about Islam as well. Or let's just say arrogant in general.

Ancient Arian nation?

Tarek is fairly light-skinned, most well to-do Pakistanis are not that dark!

Race and color consciousness in a former part of the Hindu world is very prevalent. Sun, My comments were geared to Ginan, who has a tendency of engaging in theatrics. Sorry if this seems harsh, but Muslims may be united in their acknowledgement of One God and the Qur'an being the final revelation, but when it comes to differences that divide Muslims, especially social attitudes, then yes the Ummah is fractured and divided.

I never called Tarek a al-hamdu lillah Muslim, but he acts like them in many ways. I despise all "Muslim spokesmen" including "progressives" like Asma Hasan Gull and Irshad Manji (but her writing is hilarious).

And Ginan one time pointed out that everything with me is "me, me, me." Well I'm sorry, I'm a dramatic gay man who will not patronize Muslim sisters when they get vicious with me. Many of them are vicious to me, I don't give a rat's ass about "Your adaab, akhi."

Intol/tol, Persians are arrogant and we have issues with Pakistan over Baluchistan and our cultural cousins the Pushtuns have issues with Pakistan over the southern frontier of Afghanistan with Pakistan. Many Pakistanis in the West do sometimes act like Arab chauvinists and Persians, since we are Shia, we are what the Salafi clerics in Saudi Arabia call the "rejectionist party."

Funny thing is, I attend Sunni mosques and most of my associations are with Sunnis, but I will never label myself a Sunni. I hate labels, I'm a Muslim, that's it. To hell with the lebals Ismaili, Ahmadiyya, Twelver Shia, Salafi, Tablighi, Sufi, Sunni, etc.

Sun, At least the al-hamdu lillah will address issues of feminism, not so with issues of homosexuality and variant sexualities.

At least Muslims are addressing the status of women in terms of the home, workplace, a secular society, and in the mosque and their participation in worship. Not so with those of a variant sexuality from the heterosexism ingrained in the Muslim community in North America.

But you don't see me using the victim card, as a Shia (I disdain labels though and do not mention Ali in the recitation of the shahada), I will "strike when revoked." Paraphrasing Hezbollah, yes Omar, I do have sympathize for their struggle against the "Zionist-Crusaders."

WTF????

Salaam, intol/tol

I agree with the items set forth in the Prophet's ermon as what we have in common. Zaid Shakir's site has an essay by another convert which essentially explores that idea in depth: what is the bare minimum we should agree on as Muslims. So far, so good.

When you say you want a show of hands of how many people want to be Muslim but do not associate with organizations, this concerns me. I think you are mistaking Islamism for Islam. I'm not a member of any of these organizations in the US for many good reasons. But, your question assumes that Muslim efforts can only be through these organizations. In my view, these organizations exist primarily to enhance the power of our new Islamist elite rather than encourage rational change in our communities by virtue of observation and planning based on social scientific knowledge: for example, "If people are like this, studies show the problem may be solved by lowering prices." Instead, they use a top-down approach which is incredibly moronic by simply saying, "Follow Islam, pray more and it will get better." I guess, then, based on that, almost no one prays anymore...

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

Salaam OmarG

What I notice is people here are not careful to "get" what the other people are asking. They tend to react to impressions and preconceptions.

This is just an observation and not a judgement. Communication needs some improvement.

You said, "When you say you want a show of hands of how many people want to be Muslim but do not associate with organizations, this concerns me. I think you are mistaking Islamism for Islam."

No. I was talking about people like GustavoMustafa that are simply "Muslim." Not Sunnis, Shi'is, Salafis, Wahhabis, Jihadis or Junoonis (props to the Pakistanis in da house).

And people who claim Muslim affiliation but do not practice.

Political pressure has whacked alot of western Muslims and they have it worse than the immigrant Muslims in the West. Atleast in some ways.

There seems to be a lot of Invent you own Islam which seems particularly signature of the Progressive Muslim movement.

I am asking if that is a valid approach to Islam.

Gustavo, that shouldn't be a problem. I don't think there should be progressive mosques. I like the mosques to be pretty much as they are: not forbidding certain people to pray there. Even the most Salafi of mosques I've been to don't stand in the door to keep people out. Granted, they may not talk to me sometimes, but hey, I'm better off for it.

What is boils down to is this: we're in a brave new world, Gustavo. If I or you want something to be a certain way, we're pretty much on our own to do it. It sucks; I'd love to have had someone else do it for me, if only because I'm a lazy SOB, but I'm an opinionated SOB and few things rarely satisfy me 100% unless I build it myself [PI.org is the closest so far, hovering at around 98% ;-) ].

So, we didn't have much support as converts; guess what that means: we have to dig deep and make a convert support network! I've mulled this over fir a while, and now I think its time has come. I don't give a rats ass if people think its exclusionary of immigrants or not. We are are a distinct group with specific needs, but who said we have to be perfect icons in order to get these things done? If there are no leaders, then I supopse we'll have to step up to the plate and they'll just have F-ing make do! F-it! Let's just do it...

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

OmarG, you don't sound like any Salafi I know. :o)

I think having a revert only space is not exclusionary, since new Muslims from a Western country have different issues and different perspectives when coming to Islam.

Oftentimes, it is easy to go with the herd and merely give and yield power to the immigrant elite.

We bring with Islam our Western cultural baggage, we bring with it Counter-culture Revolution Feminism, sexual liberation, and new attitudes that may not always bode well with the immigrant elite.

Islam will change depending on the context and environment where it flourishes.

North America is not Karachi or Teheran or al-Quds or Beirut. This is not Jakarta or Kuala Lampur or Istanbul.

I guess I will have to step up to the plate.

I will do that by being subversive in my local MSA.

Hallmark with Eid cards, the USPS with Eid stamps, etc.

Muslims are becoming entrepreneurs in the field of missionary activity just like their Christian counterparts on tele-evangelicism channels.