Hi Chris,

I was just curious as to whether or not Mormons might be considered “people of the book”?
I know there answer largely depends upon who’s giving it, but I peaked my curiosity.

collinerd,

Why do you think some Muslims in America find the Prophet Elijah Muhammad of the Nation of Islam so repugnant? His claim to being a “prophet” is deemed “blasphemy” and such logic would have to be applied to Mormons whose sect was founded by a “prophet” who some purists in Islam would deem a false charlatan.

All my prays are for The One.

Salaam. Nice story, here in Spain mormon missionaries are sweet and respectful. I ‘d consider them Kitab people, as they have the Bible as Rule Book and they call themselves christians _I never deny anyone’s believing conditions. Period. The problem is the Mormon Book, but not only with us muslims, it’s the book itself, all that fake myth about Jesus (peace upon him) resurrecting suddenly in America and finding a lost semite tribe among American Nations… I can’t help finding it a little hilarious, astagfirullah :P

Anyway, Chris is right. Part of the problem of misunderstanding Islam in West comes from us Muslims. Only Saudi Arabia publishes millions of booklets overwide… although not most of them are hardcore wahabbism, mi first Quran was a present, edited in Spanish at Riaad, and here I am :D We should have something. I have my t-shirts collection, some quotes, this and other sites… Allah knows best.

No, because Joseph Smith came after the Prophet Muhammad 12 centuries later, the Mormons in an Islamic sense would not be counted as the people of the Book though their faith is influenced by Christianity.

Mormons would be considered in the same light as the Baha’i and other sects that arose in South Asia, which are not counted under the general umbrella of Islam but were certainly influenced by Islam.

Mormonism is at the forefront again in the United States with the raid in Eldorado, TX concerning polygamy charges and child sexual abuse.

Polygamy is practiced by some Muslims in the United States, though it is a small segment of the community, these marriages are often conducted in “secret.”

Though the FLSD church is not part of mainstream Mormonism, sex and the Mormon claim to be “Christians” is still not settled in the United States.

I was watching Miami Ink and there was this South Asian dominatrix named Fatimah, who said in the show that she was married to a 37 year old man at the tender age of 15, she fled the abusive marriage at 18 with the aid of friends, stopped wearing the veil, and has no communication with her family.

Made me think of the controversy over the marriage age of Aisha with the Prophet Muhammad. From my understanding, she was married at 7 and sexual relations between Aisha and the Prophet were postponed, though canonical texts said she was widowed at the age of 18.

Child marriages are not to unique to Islam, they have been observed in cultures both Muslim and non-Muslim. However, in American contemporary culture, sexual relations with children under the age of consent is taboo. In American prisons, criminals known to be child molesters are “marked” men and usually subjected to premature death by fellow inmates.

When discussing this controversy with non-Muslims, Muslims need to be frank about sex and the Prophet. As vulgar as this may seem to some Muslims, in our Western culture, we can’t shy from these accusations since they are derived from the sources that form the basis of Islam.

I always tell people that the Prophet was a politician, judge, military genius, and organizer. His marriages were political, such arrangements were not uncommon in late antiquity. He expressed deep admiration for Aisha, however, he was monogamous and deeply loved his first wife, Khadijah. One cannot impose our values on his actions, given the fact that circumstances were different then.

I tell Christians who argue that Islam is a cult, Jesus was born to a teenage mother, Mary. They then become silent.

Frankly what I don’t understand is why its so important to regurgitate this argument over and over again. The prophets Mohammads sex life was in the context of his time, and culture, normal. Now if it was not, that would be a discussion point. In terms of the mother of Isa, she was indeed a teenager, some day 14 years old, at least she had her first menses. At any rate, once again it isn’t condemnation, but examination of a culture and time period when women, unfortuantely were not more than babymakers, and farm workers unless they were rich. People didn’t live long in those times. War, famine, disease if someone lived much beyond thirty it was a feat. So of course it was necessary to marry a “young” woman, because “old” women didn’t exist or they were on their last legs. If a woman is menopausal these days at say 55, in those days was it 30? So none of this really is important, who had sex with whom back thousands of years ago. In these times yes, its an issue because we have “laws” against pedophilia and child molestation, and so forth, and besides that women are viable until they are 70 or so, so no man has to have a “child” bride.
As for the story about the woman running away and stopping using the veil. I hear horror stories like this all the time, but guess what, I hear them from people who aren’t muslim. They are the boogie man stories to scar people away from islam. As we can see by the news story you pointed out, bad men aren’t just in Islam and women run from bad men all the time, no matter the race, the time, or the place. I dont’ mean to take a harsh tone here, but I guess I have read one too many disccussions about the prophets sex life, when it isn’t relevent to a thing. I believe the hadith that says he married this girl. He married her, that’s good. He didn’t steal her, kidnap her, which was done in those days and acceptable. It seems since her “mother” was more than willing to have the prophet marry her daughter I can’t see anything wrong with it, for those times.
Christians tend to be more ignorant than muslims about their own religion. But for the same reason. Fear. They fear asking the right questions about things because I know from experience that when they do ask questions that are “forbidden” they are shot down and called , “satan” just as muslims are called “shaitan” for asking questions and doing things a bit differently. One religion is not better than the other as long as there is fear. If people fear questioning the ones who teach and guide them, there is a big problem. Followers are no good if the leader is bad. The is a story in the bible about a group called the Berians. They did not accept the word as it was preached to them, but they took and examined it, and talked about it, and then made their decisions. They are an example for all people who want to be religious. We can be followers of God, without being religious. We can love God without being religious, and we can appear and love all the trappings of religion wihtout being a sheep.

Abraham abandoned his son Ishmael and his slave Hagar. Sarah is portrayed as devious and deceitful.

David was a womanizer and Solomon had quite an impressive harem.

The Bible even mentions the subject of abortion among the ancient Israelites, a “toxic elixir” given to women deemed unfaithful to their husbands. Pretty sexist in my opinion.

Muslims tend to venerate the Prophets and place them on pedestals, which is close to idolizing these MORTALS.

The FLDS women wear horrible “modest prairie dresses” but such clothing is also worn by Muslim women, where the abaya looks shabby and draps horribly on the woman, creating an ackward appearance.

People attack Islam on the basis of sex and Orientalism. Muslims need to feel comfortable talking about sex, and talking about the sex life of Muhammad without blushing. They need to also be aware that Bible also presents some problematic issues concerning the personal lives of the Prophets too.

See people should be aware to impose their values on previous ages. What was acceptable for the First Generations of Muslims may not be appropriate today.

Muslims cannot merely imitate the Prophet and think they will somehow be blessed by some Heavenly Mathematical Formula. They must be aware why they are behaving the way they are. Being a Muslim should not be relegated to blind imitation.

Abraham abandoned his son Ishmael and his slave Hagar. Sarah is portrayed as devious and deceitful.
>no he didn’t. He was pushed or coerced by Sarah who, Hagar was teasing because she had a son by Abraham and Sarah didn’t. The bible says that Sarah was “diminished” in the eyes of Hagar because she was barren. It seems that are eluding to Sarah being haughty and Hagar basically thumbing her nose to her and saying, “you’re so haughty, I have your husband and a son.” So Abraham is pushed by an angry Sarah to throw Hagar and Ismael out. Abraham begs for Ismael and Hagar.
nte

David was a womanizer and Solomon had quite an impressive harem.
>David wasn’t a womanizer he was an adulterer. He was married to Sauls daughter, and to probably a few more when he saw a woman bathing in her home, he was also a voyeur. He had his servants bring her to him, she said her husband was the head of Davids army, David had him sent to the frontlines insuring his death. Again keeping in the context of the times, a man of worth and wealth could have as many wives, or Harem as he chose to. Davidd a child with her that died, that was Gods punishment. Then he had Solomon with her. God did not allow David to build the temple, his hands had too much blood, so he allowed Solomon to do so. Yes,
Solomon had a harem of women from every race, tribe, and belief. He did this to galvtanize his kingship with his adversaries. Did he love them? No, did he have kids with them? Yes. Did he start to worship their Gods, oops…yes.

The Bible even mentions the subject of abortion among the ancient Israelites, a “toxic elixir” given to women deemed unfaithful to their husbands. Pretty sexist in my opinion.
>The bible also says that Lot offered his daughters to the bad people of Sodom so they wouldn’t affront the Angels. Oh well, the bible is
a historical document and history is never clean and sanitary like fairytailes.

Muslims tend to venerate the Prophets and place them on pedestals, which is close to idolizing these MORTALS.
Yes, they do. Bad thing to do. And they don’t understand the fine line of idol worshiping. I guess if they tossed some meat on the grill
a kebob to Mohammad they would then see the connection. But they don’t.

The FLDS women wear horrible “modest prairie dresses” but such clothing is also worn by Muslim women, where the abaya looks shabby and draps horribly on the woman, creating an ackward appearance.
>Actually I think muslim women, who try, look elegant. Yeah there are tons of dawdy abayas abounding. What does this have to do with funky looking white women in ugly cotton frocks?

People attack Islam on the basis of sex and Orientalism. Muslims need to feel comfortable talking about sex, and talking about the sex life of Muhammad without blushing. They need to also be aware that Bible also presents some problematic issues concerning the personal lives of the Prophets too.
>They do need to feel comfortable talking about sex, but how d o you do that and not get on slippery slope?

See people should be aware to impose their values on previous ages. What was acceptable for the First Generations of Muslims may not be appropriate today.
>True, doing as the prophet did is not always advisable.

Muslims cannot merely imitate the Prophet and think they will somehow be blessed by some Heavenly Mathematical Formula. They must be aware why they are behaving the way they are. Being a Muslim should not be relegated

>yeah that’s silly. if you do this, you get this many blessings. That’s wrong. In the other two religions its wayyyy wrong to think God can be used as a sort of cosmic slot machine. You drop in stuff, out comes stuff….

Alas, few seem to be interested in the actual topic of this post. :-( Oh well, that’s life!

"Our integrity sells for so little, but it is all we really have. It is the very last inch of us. But within that inch we are free."
—Valerie, in V for Vendetta

As-Salaamu `Ala Filasteen wa Rahmatullah

More like we note the Gustavo-Laila interaction, and we’re hiding until we’re sure it’s safe.

What is the Gustavo-Laila interaction? Oh come on FM

Assalamu’alaikum, if you want to celebrate British Islam, come to this event:

http://www.livingislam.co.uk

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3S9L9S6WQDo

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1JYrU9kXM&feature=related

Was’Salaam