This is mostly a response to some items in my past post's comments. Its too long to stay there, so here it is...keep in mind I prioritize by proximity and by the expected success of my efforts.
Center, I think you're living in the past, basking in ancient glories. Your understanding of a9azza is certainly interesting; framing it in terms of the modern humanistic ideal of fulfilling one's potential is novel. I will tell you that I get a distinctly opposite impression from when people say it in our era. I have no idea what was in peoples' hearts when they said that hundreds of years ago. I do know that phrases can carry different meanings over time and that people commonly back-ascribe motives to past persons and customs. Thus, I understand its current meaning to be triumphalist and supremacist. For example, what else can it possibly mean when its most often used in conjunction with "fee afghanistan, fee l-9iraq, fee [insert victimized country here] ..."? The fact that it has most often reached my ears combined with places where Muslims and non-Muslims are in conflict leaves me with few other conclusions. This kind of apologetics may work with unsuspecting non-Muslims, but it won't work with me, niether will revisionist Muslim histories.
When I hear people say that about Afghanistan, I wonder exactly who they are cheering on, because it sure doesn't sound like they want the current progress to continue. And it sure sounds like they want someone (should I mention the T word?) to be stepping over my dead body (I served in Afghanistan and am damn proud of helping to put an end to era of war and let these poeople get on with living real lives and not being pawned by Islamists as champions of Islam; you'd be shocked at how superficial Islam is in Afghanistan, even in the staunchly Pashtun villages! ...especially with night vision goggles looking out at fields and seeing curious shapes and movements which are two people frollicking in the dark).
Now, on to your persistant emphasis on Lebanon. Tell me that truly your community is at least 80% good to go. That is, a survey of your community will show that the mosque and/or the muslim community is mostly meeting thier needs:
- Are they spiritually satisfied?
- If not, are there people they can get help from?
- Do they feel welcome, with or without a hijab for example?
- Can people express themselves without fear of verbal or even physical assault?
- Are financial dealings related to the mosque fully transparent?
- Is the community proactive on spousal and child abuse issues?
- Does the community have consistent and established efforts to absorb refugees, or do they just let Catholic Charities do that for them?
- Does your community help immigrants assimilate to the culture by teaching English or showing how to best get along here without becoming ghettoized, or does the community reinforce thier alientation from American society?
- Does the community focus only on foreign issues or does it actively give to the local poor, homeless, elderly or sick by determining who is in the most need and not determined by who is Muslim and who is not?
- Are there ethnic clicques in the mosque? What's important here is whether the community addresses it or not.
I'm giving you alot of leeway here by not requiring perfection, you understand that, right? But, I'm not letting you off easy, though. Your survey has to include even the people who do not regularly attend the mosque, because the community/ummah includes them, too. If you can certify that your community is a leader in your city in welfare, charity and moral development per the Quran and Sunnah for the whole city, then we can talk about fixing other places.
And, like I said, if one prioritizes on the basis of severity (which I do not currently do, though I consider it legitmate), may I suggest that the millions of Muslim Achenese in Sumatra who *still* do not have homes, clean water or other necessities one and a half years after the Tsunami may be more deserving of one's attention and press time, or maybe the Darfur people who are the target of a large-scale, bona fide genocide? Or the millions upon millions who are dying in pain and squalor from AIDs in Africa and India?
Ginan talked about environmentalism as a critical global issue and I believe her. Yet, the issue here is how often do you hear the khatib talk about environmentalism and heading off a global catastrophe? I would be astounded to hear that a majority of mosques encourage the congregation to march on Earth Day or to particiapte in some sort environmental research or activism. I've never heard of it. If you have, kudos. But, can we even claim that it happens in the majority of North American mosques? Or, let's see, maybe it does in modernist mosques or progressive mosques or mosques run by Muslims who were raised in America and socialized with American customs and values?
What we are doing is banging our heads against the wall and all some people are doing is telling me I should change the wall. How about we stop banging our heads, period?
How often do you hear progressive Muslims talking about it?
Let me be perfectly clear here. I determine my own priorities. period.
I let others do so. If you would listen carefully, you might have
picked up on the fact that I am a secular humanist. My contact
with the mosque is zero.....
Having said that, I don't make the assumption that mosques are
doing nothing nor do I belittle their work regardless of what I
think about their beliefs, many of which I find not terribly congenial.
Does that give me the right to detract from what they are doing?
Absolutely not.
I know very conservative women in my local area-immigrants whom you depict as passive or activist only because they were raised here, starting a shelter for battered women, they are actively working with the larger American community on issues of cooperation with authorities, many of them help immigrants find work. In New York there is a social service center for Arab Americans that does exactly the kind of work you do. Organizationslike the ADC help immigrants with things like civil rights. Naap -is a newer organization that helps Arab professionals work a variety of different things. RAWI- the Arab American Radius for writers helps people get their work out there and looks specifically at writing produced in this country. this is just to give you a small sample of the kind sof work people are doing.
It is in neo-Orientalist fashion that you fail to inform yourself and then assume that nothing of value happens among the natives until
they come into contact with superior cultures.
In fact, the more conservative or traditional Muslims I have encountered socially strike me as being less self-absorbed,
and more likely to be involved at the grassroots level, particularly
since they congregate on a more regular basis. In my own research
I am looking at texts dealing with issues of migration, endgangered
communities and enviormental injustice. I am also becoming
involved with the Network of spiritual progressives, there are
people in my local chapter who are interested in enviormental justice. What people in the mosques are saying about the issue I don't know. But don't cast the first stone....
For the record---- we might have something to learn from the
''inferior'' peoples of the world about the management of limited
resources because guess what scarcity makes people resourceful
and much less wasteful. Egypt, for instance, has got one of the
most efficient recycling systems because nothing gets thrown away.
Just because local forms of activism don't take the same culturally
specific form you happen to recognize, it doesn't mean nothing is
going on. In my personal life, my immediate community, I walk
people through many a personal crisis like divorce ect and that
may not show. That is because a lot of the communal work is
imbricated in life and not set apart, not always visible to outsiders.
Having said all that, if I choose to focus on international matters
that interest me I will- especially since my government is directly
involved in sending weapons being used on innocent civilians and
has been instrumental in stopping a cease-fire. Isn't blogging
often about current affairs? How come nobody else gets questioned
on this website about their focus? What's the deal? A lot of
other websites, including counterpounch which is on our blogroll-
are dealing with this subject extensively.
It sounds like an excellent project! If any Muslim philosophy would act on it, its probably the progessive/modernist/liberal side of the house that can actually deliver the goods...if only they'd get out of the funk that fundi and tradi intimidation has wrought. We need more former Marines in this gig! - A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
That's cool, Ginan. We come from seperate worlds, and I do understand that you do not associate with the mosques, which is perhaps why my criticisms don't resonate with you. I also understand that the general Arab-American community outside of the mosques do organize themselves. But you need to understand that I'm not now, nor can I ever be associated with an community that is based on ethnicity, which is why I am generally and unapologetically unaware of thier efforts. For example, I don't think you would get far by trying to join the Italian-American Federation, or the Daughters of Italy, etc.
However, on the Muslim side of the house, we got problems. And the fact that Muslims of Arab decent seem to do alot within the Arab-American framework and not the Muslim framwork just proves my point that our Islamic communities are fractured by ethnic divides; not to mention a serious divide between immigrants and converts/2nd generation that has only been widening after Sept 11. Thus, our concerns, our focus, our homes are completely different. So, I have no idea how we think we would bridge these fundamental divides online, or even why we would want to...
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
It is not true. They are involved, very often, on both fronts. not
true at all. very often with empowering their local community, much
much more than the progressives or moderates, including reaching
out to intra-faith groups and making contact with local politicians.
It's not going to get progressives anywhere if they don't own up and
admit that these guys- here as well as abroad- have proven much
more efficient in providing badly needed social services. It is a tragedy that reactionary ideologies are often combined with services.
Until and here I include secular Arabs start confronting this abysmal
failure to deal seriously with matters that impact the majority these
guys will spread their ideas. My honest opinion is that they are dealing with bread and butter issues while others are just living the
suburban dream and progressives are getting caught up with identiity politics. We all have a lot of soul searching to do and I
sometimes think that constantly critiquing others shields us from
confronting our own shortcomings.
I woulnd't disagree that the progressive crowd has the reputation of being a middle-class, suburban and especially academician movement. I'm not so sure its a bad thing, but I agree with you that success will require us to do more than pontificate. But finding enough people to do so is hard, especially when we have to do so largely in a local context, since it seems internet collaboration has its serious limits. I think its very difficult to get people to give up cherished Islamist notions when they haven't seen them completely fail yet, or when they always manage to blame someone else or even come up with a novel interpretation of the texts to explain it away. Its a tough nut to crack, and I think that the academician aspect present in alot of progressive Islam is a necessary first step to formulating a way out. Afterall, going into combat unprepared is worse than not engaging the enemy at all.
This is what I'm trying to do in grad school, but I have not found a way to properly and comprehensively articulate it and present it. And, it seems that people are not quite sure of my desire to do more than simply publish or perish. I think knowledge has a higher calling than as simply a career, but I digress.
I am not unaware that there are groups, for example, in NYC as well as the Ummah clinic in inner-city LA. But, I've never seen things like this in any of the 5 communities I've lived in, and that's ashame. Its also a shame that when I ask about these things, people in these communities use some of the same arguments that others than yourself have used here. But, I'm also wondering if it is inevitable that in NYC with 900,000 Muslims, that at least some of them have thier heads screwed on right? Maybe there needs to be some sort of critical mass in population with a wide diversity of mosques and people so that at least statistically there's a few who do right.
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
Center, I think you're living in the past, basking in ancient glories. Your understanding of a9azza is certainly interesting; framing it in terms of the modern humanistic ideal of fulfilling one's potential is novel. I will tell you that I get a distinctly opposite impression from when people say it in our era. I have no idea what was in peoples' hearts when they said that hundreds of years ago. I do know that phrases can carry different meanings over time and that people commonly back-ascribe motives to past persons and customs. Thus, I understand its current meaning to be triumphalist and supremacist. OmarG
omarg:
you are too steeped into negativity. for your information, what makes a culture a 'living' culture is partly its adaptability to current intellectual trends. the concept 'a3azza' is a dynamic concept; you intentionally want to fossilize it in order that it fits your intolerant predispositions. by the way, there is nothing novel about the arab/muslim culture being inclusive. there is no ascription of motives to what the scholars of old did; the motives were for openness, inclusiveness and compassion. it seems to me that much of the antagonism you have acquired toward the (muslim) arabs is a consequence of dealing with petty practitioners of muslim or arab culture. though i am secularist (ala USA form), i adore Bukhary's respect (as well as other scholars) for considering human life sacred; indeed an outstanding forerunner of the declaration of human rights.. long time ago, 3uzz of islam found its expression in protecting human life, irrespective of what faith a person espoused. is it any wonder that muslims use this dua: allahumma a3izz al-islam! humanistic ideals already exist in the arab/muslim culture; only the labels are missing. and, please, do not muddle the issue with 'our era'. our era is fine...your pessimism and negativity gets into the way of seeing the richness of the arab/muslim heritage. get rid of the cobwebs...get off this: 'triumphalist' and 'supremacist'; be proactive.
shake your head and shout: astaghfir allah.
Salaams,
>>the concept 'a3azza' is a dynamic concept; you intentionally want to fossilize it in order that it fits your intolerant predispositions.
You've missed my point; I am working from observations I have made over 15 years in 5 communities and hundreds of people; shall you dismiss observation simply because it contradicts your beleifs? You're working from theory, thinking that all Muslims give that word the same meaning you do, and then use apologetics and historical revisionism to imply that human rights was in Islam 1300 years ago.
Don't get me wrong; i love Islam and think it still has great potential in this world and era of ours. When you speak of the richness of Arab/Muslim culture, I think two things: stop, take a look around and tell me truly where is richness these days: intellectual, technological, economic, philosophical?! In the West or in the Arab world? This is not to say that the Arab world can't be a nice and pleasant place to live in someday, but so far, and let me be charitable, its not there yet (or 'back there yet' for people who beleive in the mythical Golden Age). This is why I resist the Arabization of North American communities: we really don't need all thier problems imported here by them recreating thier culture. Its a fallacy that they can import thier culture, keep it in a non-Arab and non-Muslim society and even more fallacaious to think that they can only use the good things from thier Arabic culture. Just as fallacious when immigrants think they can only adopt the "wholesome" parts of the West and avoid the "bad". And, indeed there are plenty of good things, perhaps in the same way that removing the corrosion from brass can produce a shiny surface. Of course, if you call the corrosion 'shiny', well then...
The second thing is: why do you keep referring to Arab/Muslim this and that? Do you mean only the Islamic culture of the Arab region, or do you mean the Arab culture along with the rest of the Muslims? If you're writing from an Arab country, I can forgive the narrow view as much as I forgive my fellow Americans for thier lack of knowledge of the outside world. If you're writing from the West, there is absolutely no place for this kind of ethno-centrism based on a foreign culture. In either case, you certainly seem to imply a special place for the 'Arab' component, thus ignoring the other cultural components or relegating them to a secondary place. Niether is acceptable, anymore. It implies exactly the kind of chauvenism I doth protest about.
Please explain this usage so I don't assume too much about your beleifs in this matter.
>>our era is fine...
The first stage is denial, then comes anger...boy, you're not going to be a pretty writer when you get to that stage, if ever, eh?
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
Omar-
Get their heads screwed on right? Who is this monolithic ''they'' -
Why should would be so sure that ours are screwed on right
in this confusing world and turbulent times? It is this constant
negative, as Center sensed, focus on the faults of others that
is perturbing. It's almost a knee jerk reaction to avoid any kind of
serious self-critique, to suppress self-doubt. My impression is that
there may be a deep anger because people think becoming a Muslim
will give them a community and then they are bitterly disappointed.
Are we all in some way craving a sense of true connection that are
thwarted by social conditions. I don't know? YOu are right in so many
ways the progressive community is a virtual one- I cannot speak for
everyone- and so perhaps it raises expectations it cannot fulfill.
This is not just about Arab centered mosques. a lot more is going on
here.
Tariq Ali- a man with his head screwed on right thinks that part of
the problem in thinking about these movements is too much focus
on theology and not enough on history. I am not convinced that
rereading the traditions is the answer. These movements seem to
be doing what the progressives are never inclined to do; address
majority issues and fulfill urgent needs on the ground. Larger parts
of the Muslim world, including a lot of migrant communities in places like the French banlieus - are in situations of social crisis.
careerism has become more important in many cases. This is not just among Muslims but it is a general problem. Who are the public intellectuals dealing with matters of grave concern? Maybe Al Gore is becoming one in a sense now that he is no longer a politician, he is working to raise awareness about global warming. Chomsky talks about this problem a lot. He makes a lot of sense on the subject.
Tariq Ali- a man with his head screwed on right thinks that part
of the problem is that there may be too much focus on theology
- not enough on the historical.I am not convinced that rereading
the texts is the answer, at least it is hardly adequate. These
movements are doing what the progressives never seem inclined
to do; address majority issues.
Friends tell me that in Cairo the pictures of Nasrallah are beginning to appear next to those of Nasser. I asked on another post how you thought the collective aspirations of people who have been locked out and locked in can be dealt with. That should tell you something.
this is not just about faith. People get radicalized in the mosques and
now we have global audiences convinced that Muslim blood is cheap.
That should make us stop, pause, reflect on what this is all about. what is it about your faith that is universal do you think? What are the definining contours that make it something more than an ethno-
centric Arab faith? It would seem to me that the focus on justice
is probably one of the universal aspects that has historically drawn
converts.
Omarg:
there is no 'salaams', there is only: salaam
etc etc. do not bastardize unitary concepts. there is no peaces(s)...there is only 'peace'...
trying to be cute!
glad to see you are finally getting the hang of things: The first stage is denial, then comes anger..
Omarg, the johnny come lately scientist. if you observed with pre-set position, then you are not a scientist, you are an ideologue. your observations, i am using the word observations very loosely, serve to support your already made up conclusions. this is not science; this is Omargism.
Omargism is not worth a darn....furthermore, it sounds heinous.
Omarg: fifty more people were killed in a village last night in lebanon...are you still gazing at your naval?
Center- the majority of those cleansed were children. Of course
followed by the usual signifiers of ''regret'' for the loss of innocent
lives with the manly promise of more bombardment to come.
Orwellian indeed. watch the language and the mass distractions.
Ginan,
...the regrets...etc...nothing but hypocrisy.
neo-cons are up to their ears in deception....instigators of malaise and social disharmony.
Ginan, you amaze me. People with thier heads screwed on straight refer to the same people whom you said do reach out within and without thier communities. I think those people, even if you describe them as conservative, have gotten it right. I'd like to see more of 'em. Center, its called the Americanization of Islamic cultures. Thanks for letting me know, but when I write in English, I'll use Englishisms as I see fit; but thanks for keeping me motivated against your kind of chauvenism. you don't need to hide behind civilian deaths. My questions are about Muslims in America so don't try to change the subject. Do you intend to explain to me your usage of "Arab/Muslim" or not? But hey, if Hizbollah is a product of Israeli aggression, what's wrong with Omarism being a product of Arab discrimination? Ha, it goes both ways you know!
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
OmarG,
You should know that even in the Western media, the term "Arab/Muslim" is used all the time in reference to anything relating to Islam. Though Arabs only constitute less than a fifth of the total Muslim population, they are basically seen even by Muslims as being the "quinessential Muslim."
As deceptive as this term may be, cultural Arab imperialism is all the vogue today in Islam with Muslims seeing Salafi Islam as the "true representative of a pure and uncorrupted Islam." And since Salafi Islam is so integral to Saudi national identity, Saudi traditional dress becomes the standard of "Islamic dress" and other cultural mannerisms prevalent on that peninsula.
Italy is a peninsula too, less arid of course and more mountainous, with a major pilgrimage city on its central western coastal region just a few miles inland, just like Mecca, and they have a stone obelisk in the center of the piazza.
So could we Islamize the Catholic hajj to the Vatican?
omarg;
you are starved for attention, ADHD case
there is nothing about americanization that condones abuse of words like : peaces. this is vulgar, much like your abuse of salaams.
telling you this with no charge. i am doing it for wajh allah.
Center, get off Omar's case!
Omar is different, he is certainly unique.
My Muslim identity is based on still being new to the faith, being the son of Muslim immigrants who never taught me Islam growing up, so I am also a revert with the cultural baggage of the Persian Muslim world resting on my shoulders.
Omar has been a Muslim since he was 15 if I remember correctly, he is 30 now, so half his life he has been a Muslim and being a Near Eastern Studies graduate student, he has mastered the Arabic language which does not seem that terribly difficult to me, even though I'm still in the basic introductory course. I studied Mandarin Chinese and Japanese, so Arabic is not quite that challenging for me.
He does bring up some valid points of self-criticism pertaining to the Muslim community in the United States.
Muslims in America are always concerned with "white looking" Muslims be they blonde haired Palestinians or white ivory skinned Lebanese Hezbollah supporters marching down the streets of Tyre.
I'm half Afghan, my mother is "white" with her dirty blonde hair which is natural by the way, she doesn't dye it like so many Persian women do.
But when it comes to Black Muslim folks or Malay Muslim folks, we don't seem to care.
We only care for the "white" Muslims of the Middle East and the "brown" Muslims of South Asia.
Black and yellow Muslims can just take a back seat to their concerns and issues.
always me me me-
Ginan, who is me?
Are you talking about me or Omar?
This is a blog afterall, and people will post topics and responses based upon their subjective experiences with Islam in a non-Muslim majority country like the United States.
His comments and concerns are not that different from other people, but they may never take the time to articulte their viewpoints.
It will be amazing when Omar does become a professor of Islamic studies and writes books on American Islam. Imagine, some people don't like Reza Aslan, imagine when they read books on Islam by Omar Gatto?
Please, center! Now you are defending the 'face of God' by opposing the nativization of 'salaams'? LOL. If you didn't figure it out, I'm not the first to use it that way, and its influenced by the English phrase, 'Greetings!' which is always plural. Since 'salaam' serves the same function among English-speaking Muslims, we've done a little bit of linguistic qiyaas. You can't stop the hybridization of American and Muslim cultures. We are now 40% of the American ummah and increasing each year, especially with the post 9-11 decline in Muslim immigration and increased conversion. You can try to maintain purity by equating your cultural chauvenism in a foreign land by equating it with defending Islam and God, but that will only provoke bitterness once people see through it, which isn't a long time. And, you recognize that its futile which is why you *can only* claim its Islamic, because otherwise other Muslims wouldn't care about preserving your culture instead of thiers. Clever tactic, but more and more people are seeing through it. But, many stay silent because of the taunts of people like you. I'm sure you fear the fact that once one person speaks publicly about it, the ball will get rolling and you will no longer bask in the glory of your throne of Arabness. (of course, I'ma ssuming your ethnicity based on your writing, but since we know nothing about you...)
Does God speak Arabic? What is the language of Paradise?
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
Well typical of most Americans, I speak English primarily and for the most part, I'm functional monolingually. I am starting to take Arabic for the sake of improving my "Islamic skills" and since my family never taught me Farsi or Spanish for that matter, since they wanted me to be an American, which has a tendency of leaning towards monolingualism, I will also correct that "deficiency" too. Omar is more Middle Eastern/South Asian than me.
Well, it shouldn't be a problem to learn Arabic to read the texts. I think its important to do so for a few reasons: 1. it cuts out the middle men who try to monopolize the sources of Islam by claiming only they can truly interpret the language, never mind that no one grows up speaking the Arabic of 7th century Quraish... 2. It prevents people from claiming that "you don't speak Arabic so how can you comment on what the Quran says?" Some people like to use that one alot, attempting to deligitimize other Muslim's religious rights. So, go full steam for it and master it! Our religious freedom depends on it...
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
i do not know whether god speaks arabic or hebew.
omarg: apparently you do not understand the meaning of: i am doing it for wajh allah.
this is your homework for tomorrow to figure it out.
the meaning is nothing close to your saying: Now you are defending the 'face of God' by opposing the nativization....
Your arrogance in assuming that God cares about how correctly people speak the Arabic language is truly astounding. Here's your homework: figure out where God says in the texts that he will protect anything *other than thw Quran*.
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
here is another explanation i am posting for wajh illah:
salaam = peace
tahiyyah = greeting
tahiyyateen = greetings
tahiyyat = more than two greetings
salaam = peace....only one peace...., to say: peaces in english not only sounds silly, it also is wrong. may be one could say that in pigeon english.
as a grad student, you should be more discriminating in what you say and how your say it. you need to be more cognizant of the social environment especially where there could be speakers of arabic, be they arabic language specialists or native speakers. .
fahimt? allah yahdeek.
pray for the dead in Qana; it won't cost you a red penny.
In that case, I demand reciprocity; therefore you must pronounce the 'p' and use English plurals for borrowed english words. From now on, you must say "the computers" in Arabic and not say "al-kombyuteraat". ;-)
Have you ever heard American Muslims say "tahiyyaat" to each other?? Nope. People use "salaam alaikum", and the shortned version "salaam" has experienced semantic shift to mean "greetings", hi, hello. I do not often hear American Muslims and non-native Arabic speakers use the borrowed word 'salam' to mean peace. Thus, you must understand that no one cares what you ardently wish it would mean among English speakers. You can't control that. So, what's your point? Are you able to distinguish between Arabic and English as seperate languages?ÂÂ
My point is that requiring English speakers to adopt Arabic grammar to borrowed words is insane. When I speak Arabic, i will use Arabic grammar and not English grammar. When I use borrowed Arabic words in English, I swear to Allah it is only natural to use English grammar on them, and I swear I will not assist you in the Arabization of Americans or the English language. Got it?
Masters, may I say prayers instead of 'salawaat', masters, may I please?
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
I'm offended at your abuse of the English language, Sun. It's also ratherÂÂ
incongruous that you demand greater accuracy in the use of Arabic wordsÂÂ
and phrases in rather broken English. Pray that God informs you of yourÂÂ
errors; it shan't cost you a red cent. ÂÂ
Here's few URLs:
Google it for more; there's a ton out there!
Oh Allah, give your mercy and blessings to those who merge American and Islamic cultures, amin.
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
omarg,
you missed my point. i have no interest in Arabization of the english language.
the point, omarg, is that there are words that do not have a plural form such as: peace, honesty, [humanity], spirituality, salafiyah, etc. they, however, could be used to describe a *state* of an individual or individuals. u are salafi in prayer.
Omarg, because of your humanity, i hope you pray for the little humans and the old humans who perished in Qana.
omarg:
you can use any grammar with any language you wish. your aspiration to be a muslim/arabic scholar, plus the pedestrian sound of 'salaams' motivated me to point to you how wrong it is to say 'salaams' i expect people will look up to you as a role model; they would also seek you as an expert (or are U) to help them deal with language/islamic concepts.
i will tell you,though, it is not scholarly to say 'salaams'; it is more McDonald-ish. . .
Sigh...
Please reread the part where I show that salaams does not mean peace to English speakers and that its only English-speaking Muslims who use the word 'salaams'. And, trying to enforce Arabic meanings of words and Arabic grammar of those words on English-speaking Muslims sure sounds like Arabization to me. Your case in unconvincing. Google it like I said, why don't you? It will show there are many, many people for you to correct; begin anytime you like...
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
Ginan and Center,
Your criticisms of OmarG is annoying, this bickering makes you guys sound like some bitter, jaded queer gay queens.
I'm tired of reading this one and off attack of one another, lay off it.
Why do Muslims have to look up to other people for knowledge and expertise in matters pertaining to Islam?
Realize, God gave you a mind to use and employ on spiritual matters, rather than being spoon fed spirituality, employ your critical thinking skills.
Or what, has being a Muslim been reduced to being a zombie, unthinking and unwilling to be in error.
Fabulously ironic to find blood being spilled over an "s" in salams.
A Zen master once said, "The distance between Heaven and Hell is the breadth of a single hair." Or perhaps, that hair is the iota, when we say "it does not make one iota of difference." Yet, our saying about that iota comes from the iota of difference between "homoousious" (of one essense) and "homoIousious" (of similar
essence).
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The Fathers of the First Ecumenical Synod (First Ecumenical Council) were not recent Christians. They had not embraced the Christian Faith out of expediency. Many bore the scars of earlier persecutions  scars which so moved Emperor Constantine that he caressed their wounds and kissed their empty eye sockets. Having first-hand knowledge of the Living God, personal experience of God, they knew, The Lord is my helper and I will not fear what man shall do to me. These Fathers had the same experiential knowledge that had transformed the Disciples from the fear and timidity that kept them behind locked doors in the Upper Room into powerful preachers of the Good News. This experiential knowledge allowed these Fathers to immediately recognise Arianism to be a distortion of the Christian Faith. Their task was to find terminology that could mark Arianism as a distortion. They borrowed a term from Greek (pagan) philosophy without embracing its manner of thinking: homoousios (literally homo + ousios, same + being/essence, meaning same being or same essence). They rejected an alternate with only an iota of difference: homoiousios (similar being or similar essence, from homoi meaning similar) because the Arians could interpret it in a manner consistent with Arianism. The Fathers would not compromise, a teaching was either consistent or inconsistent with the Church's communal experience of the Living God; they refused to accept an iota of difference and homoousios became the watchword of a correct understanding of the Son. The word homoousios was enshrined in the Symbol of Faith (Creed) produced by the First Ecumenical Synod.
Jonathan Swift, in "Gulliver's Travels", described a great religious dispute between the "big-endians" who believed their sacred scritpure commanded that they open their hard boiled egg at the large end, versus the "little-endians", who interpreted the same verse as a command to open the egg at the small end. When Swift asked to see the verse in question, it read "Break thy egg where thou wilt."
Sitaram,
small end vs the large end vs as though willt is a call to check the primary sources. ideologies have often, if not always, stood in opposition to primary sources.
the explanation of 'iota' is great...thanks